Yet another blog for spewing. This one may end up with a lot of religious and social content.

2005-12-09

I Want To Cry

I've been reading through my brother-in-law's blog, and I want to cry. My sister married a cookie cutter, right wing, talking head. Nothing that isn't screamed out by intolerant reactionaries, complete with "studies" with distortions of the meaning of the statistics, and patently false assumptions about the true nature of society. (Thousands of years of anti-homosexualiasm as a "reason" for it still being considered a disease? No. The Sacred Band of Thebes comes to mind.)

He spouts the same old tired rhetoric and "justifications" that are part of what repulsed me from the Church to begin with. Anti-gay, anti-choice, pro-crusader-war, anti-realistic sex-ed, pro-monoculture, pro-theocracy, pro-"under-God", pro-mandatory school prayer (Christian only, of course) - all of the same religious reich narrow, hateful, theocratic bullshit that I have been fighting for years, and now it turns out that my own sister is married to one!!

I had though he was an actual intellectual, who really thought things through. I find, instead, regurgitated claptrap from right wing religious think tanks, and without attribution!! No original thought, just the same old crap that indicates that he's never looked at the other side.

I try to see things from both sides. Having been a Baptist in a fairly conservative church, I have first hand experience with the worldview. It's a frightening place, IMO. But once you've drunk the grape juice, you can understand the source of the worldview, even if you ultimately discover that there is another way to live.

I have three neices and nephews. I now understand what they are being raised into. I am even more willing to bet that I will have one of them on my doorstep, desperate for acceptance, in a few years. That door will be open. No one should have to live in the type of environment that "loves the sinner, but....". How would you like to have only "conditional" love from your own parents?

I will be seeing them for Christmas. I called my dad about bringing my partner with me. It's about time that my brother in law had his bigotted face rubbed in reality, and what love and caring really means.

I so want to cry. My own kin are strangers, and the enemy in a "culture war" that their cohorts started against me and mine.

What the fuck is wrong with people being able to decide their own path and life, as long as it harms no one living? (No, I don't consider non-viable [without extreme medical intervention] fetii to be alive.) Why the hell is this country so overflowing with mean-spirited hypocrites these days?

The evangelical and right wing churches have lost the way of Jesus of Nazareth, if they ever really had it.

"Jesus wept." - new testament, ch & verse not recalled.

3 comments:

Grandma_Ellen said...

Ravan, why the personal attack on your sister's husband? That he believes differently from you is something you have known for a long time. Has he EVER personnally attacked you on his blog? (NO!) Were you not, by your own admission, raised in the same kind of religious family? (Yes!) Were you not loved unconditionally, even though you often chose to openly disparage both of your parents, their choice of religion, their belief systems and that you felt slighted because your mother didn't fight for you during their divorce, even though the fact of the matter was you said that you didn't want to go with her? Are you aware that the attitude you have chosen to display toward your sister and brother-in-law, the personal attack, is breaking your mother's heart. She has just lost her mother, one of the two persons in this world to whom she was the closest for all of her life, and that she is about to lose her husband of over ten years any day. Why, except to be just plain mean-spirited, would you show such intolerance to members of your own family? You have another choice. You can go, enjoy their company, enjoy their children and say nothing about their religious views. That would show the tolerance and maturity, love of your family and respect for both your mother and grandmother, yes, and even your father, that they all deserve. You want acceptance of your ideas and lifestyle. It seems to me that the first step in that is for you to accept, not agree with but accept as how they are, the ideas and religion of your extended family. In families, we agree to disagree and still love the person.

Ravan Asteris said...

Personal?? Oh, please. If I want to be personal, I can.

Has he EVER personnally attacked you on his blog? (NO!)

yes. Not by name, but when he attacks those who share my beliefs, he attacks me. When he advocates passing laws against me and mine, he attacks me.

Were you not, by your own admission, raised in the same kind of religious family? (Yes!)

Yes, but I grew out of it. I pulled my head out of my ass. Having once held the same twisted worldview does not obligate me to still hold it, or "tolerate" (sanction the machinations of, more like), such views.

Were you not loved unconditionally, even though you often chose to openly disparage both of your parents, their choice of religion, their belief systems and that you felt slighted because your mother didn't fight for you during their divorce, even though the fact of the matter was you said that you didn't want to go with her?

This is so much garbage that I ndon't even know where to begin. 1: Yes, I was loved unconditionally - my parents weren't fundamentalist dominionists. 2: I have never "openly dispaged both my parents, their choice of religion, their belief systems". Period. I have criticized some of the choices they have made, on more than one occasion, but then again, my mother has always seen fit to deride my choices and opinions if they don't match what she wants me to think or do, so turn about is fair play. I don't feel a need to play conversion games on my parents. 3: I never "you felt slighted because your mother didn't fight for you during their divorce, even though the fact of the matter was you said that you didn't want to go with her." My sister and I divided up our parents when they got divorced. There was no "slighting" involved. We chose, and would have been miffed if our choices had not been respected. So that whole line is just plain nonsense.

Are you aware that the attitude you have chosen to display toward your sister and brother-in-law, the personal attack, is breaking your mother's heart.

Why, because I vehemently disagree with the kind of person who wants to impose theocracy in this country? Who wants homosexuality reclassified as a disease? Who wants to deny women control over their own bodies? The fact that I don't shrug and say "eh, it's just his opinion" and say nothing "breaks her heart"?? Silence equals assent and agreement when dealing with people who advocate imposing their narrow religious mores on others. My parents taught me that.

She has just lost her mother, one of the two persons in this world to whom she was the closest for all of her life, and that she is about to lose her husband of over ten years any day.

How in the fuck does this imply that I should sanction my BiL's hostile and intolerant views? Will nodding and saying "yup, yup, lets put gays back in the closet and deny them rights, and let school officials force kids to participate in some brand of Christian prayer, or denying a woman control over her life and her body" bring back my grandmother? Even if it did, would it be worth the sacrifice of integrity? No.

Why, except to be just plain mean-spirited, would you show such intolerance to members of your own family?

Intolerance? Oh, that's rich! I am greatly horrified and sorrowed by a family member's intolerance and bigotry, so I am being intolerant? What twisted dictionary did you get that from? It would be one thing if he just thought homosexuality was wrong. I could deal with that. To each his/her own. But when he starts in with the bullshit "statistics", and advocates continuing to deny them the same basic familial rights as heterosexuals get, then I must speak up, or my silence means, "yes, kinsman, I am not worthy of equal treatment under the law". I wont say that.

Get this: tolerance for a person's personal views does not mean tolerance for imposing those views by force of law on others. Furthermore, I have never once advocated that he be silenced, or even suggested that he not be allowed to express his bigotry. But I reserve the right to tear his views apart, and express my personal distaste and disgust with the fact that a member of my family holds such neanderthal views.

You can go, enjoy their company, enjoy their children and say nothing about their religious views.

::eyeroll:: I don't have to *say* anything. After all, "by their fruits ye shall know them". Actions speak louder than words. I'm bringing my partner.

That would show the tolerance and maturity, love of your family and respect for both your mother and grandmother, yes, and even your father, that they all deserve.

Maturity is standing up, by word and deed, for what you believe. I don't want to force him into a homosexual marriage, or deny him the right to pray (or not) wherever he wants, or force my sister to have an abortion of a wanted child. He can't say the same in reverse.

You want acceptance of your ideas and lifestyle. It seems to me that the first step in that is for you to accept, not agree with but accept as how they are, the ideas and religion of your extended family.

"Accept" bigotry?? How can I "accept" a viwpoint that is openly hostile to me and mine? Shrug helplesly and "accept" the hostility of a dominionist minority that wants to kill or convert me as right and proper? I don't think so. That's not "maturity", that's being a doormat, the stereotype minority holding the door, bowing and scraping, saying "please don't beat me master, I'm a good minority, I stays in my ghetto/plantation/bario/closet".

In families, we agree to disagree and still love the person.

We agree to disagree, we do not agree to withhold counterarguments or approbabtion. He's still my brother in law, and I would never wish to interfere in his marriage. But I still reserve the right to be saddened and disgusted by his narrow, childish, bigotted views.

Grandma_Ellen said...

"2: I have never "openly dispaged both my parents, their choice of religion, their belief systems". Period. I have criticized some of the choices they have made, on more than one occasion,"
How does that differ from disparaging their belief systems when you criticize them for being christian, which you have done?

"but then again, my mother has always seen fit to deride my choices and opinions if they don't match what she wants me to think or do,"

Wrong! Your mother has always accepted your choices and championed your right to make them. Show me where she has ever derided your choices, other than the one to personally attack your BiL and Sister this week.

"so turn about is fair play. I don't feel a need to play conversion games on my parents."
Then why do you do so? Incidently, this set of sentences contradict each other. When you make judgments and pull statements out of your posterior which are not factual, but presented as such, you will be called on it. Your mother also would appreciate your asking her what she thinks or how she feels instead of your telling her. For one thing, your guesses are often wrong.

If you don't know by now that I agree with you totally about both homosexuality and abortion, then you haven't been paying attention for the past forty years. I also believe that God is alive and active in our life here on earth and that He will not allow his special people, i.e. homosexuals and lesbians, to be sent back into the closet by the passing of restrictive laws. I know you think this view is simplistic. I once did too. Now I have seen, up close and personal, the power of prayer and that is what I choose to use to help handle this situation. Let's both invoke the power of our god(s). Remember, if God be for us, who can stand against us? I truly believe that God loves all genders and sexual orientations and He will not tolerate the kind of intolerance, based, IMHO, in fear, now being directed toward either homosexuals or christians.

I love you. I honor you. I respect you and I think your comments on your BiL's blog were well written and excellent.